DUST Search - Sprint/Profile/Scan Comparisons

Beren Hurin wrote:

Speed comparative analysis

Suit------CPU used/PG Used-----CPU Remaining/PG Remaining

Logistics vk.1 = 10.07m/s-----108/60-----336.19/29.5
Logistics vk.0 = 8.99m/s----- 108/60-----336.19/29.5
Assault vk.1 = 9.44m/s-----81/45-----288.19/29.5
Assault vk.0 = 9.56m/s-----108/60-----223.69/7
Heavy vk.1 = 6.77m/s-----54/30-----240.19/29.5
Heavy vk.0 = 6.32m/s-----54/30-----240.19/29.5
Scout vk.1 = 10.15m/s-----81/45-----178.19/29.5
Scout vk.0 = 10.36m/s-----81/45-----150.69/22

So I took your numbers and assumed that you were fitting max catalyzers for this analysis. I then, just to control for other variables, assumed that each fit was equipping a GEK and a fused locus grenade. Now if you look at the remaining fittings you can quickly see what you have to start to sacrifice.

Max tank

If for example you want to fit a max tank (2 complex shields for about +165 HP) the Assault vk.0 or Scout vk.0 will not be able to equip any equipment or probably no sidearms, wasting 3 slots each. The remaining suits with equipment slots would have to use only a sidearm and a single equipment slot, or two equipment slots (and only standard modules). If you'd want to increase your weapon's meta, you'd then have to sacrifice tank and/or speed, but here the assault has the advantage, because as soon as you take a catalyzer off of the scout (for a PG upgrade), the assault has a better tank and more speed than the scout. This all assumes mostly max skills. Clearly PG is your limiting factor from catalyzers.

So if you priorities are, max speed>max tank>max lethality...your possibilities are...

1) scout vk.0 at 10.36 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 403 HP (and significant shield recharge) and only a GEK/locus grenade.
2) scout vk.1 at 10.15 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 403 HP (+ recharge) GEK/grenade +std sidearm/ std equip
3) logistics vk.1 at 10.07 m/s (4 catalyzers) at 509 HP (weak recharge, but better stamina recovery than scout/assault) and only a GEK/grenade + 2 STD equipment (no sidearm).
4) assault vk.0 at 9.56 m/s (4 catalyzers) at 376 HP(no complex shields fit) and a GEK/locus grenade + a sidearm or better gun or maybe equip.
5) assault vk.1 at 9.44 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 541 HP and a GEK/locus grenade + a sidearm and/or better gun and/or maybe equip.

Here you also see what you are sacrificing to get that marginal speed bonus. For max speed, you will not get close to max damage or tank. If you threw off the last catalyzer on each of these in exchange for a PG bonus, then you could probably start to get into prototype weapons and/or equipment onto your fitting.
GÇªworking on similar analysis for the other categoriesGÇª

Conclusion: It really doesn't seem worth it to be able to sprint at above 9.5 m/s to sacrifice so many other aspects of your fitting ability.


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Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1848	Posted - 2013.03.31 20:43:00 - [1] - Quote Sprint/Profile/Scan Comparisons - With DFT Results Every now and then, whenever we see a post from someone saying that scouts are better or that assaults are better or that maybe the logistics are better, there appears to be confusion among the crowd. Those on one side of the argument points to CPU/PG availability, others point to clot layout, while the rest point to overall intended design or some other extra reason behind their claims. But how often have we seen those claim substantiated? Not very often unfortunately. Maybe a few times, but apparently all of that seems to have been forgotten in an endless sea of unrelated threads even with the search function. Thanks to Synner Zerg from Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunters, we now have a fully functional Dust Fitting Tool (DFT) that comes in the form of a spreadsheet seen below. I recommend that you tag the link below into your favorites for future reference. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66531&find=unread The purpose of this thread is to see which dropsuit is the best in four categories: Sprint Speed, Profile Dampening, and Scan Radius, and Scan Precision. For the sake of maintaining fairness and keeping this thread as unbiased as possible, I am only going to be showing Prototype level dropsuits (both vk.0 and vk.1 variants) fitted only with the complex level modules related to the four tests. Equipment slots, light/sidearm/heavy, grenade, high-power slots, and overall intended design are ignored for all classes since everyone has a unique taste towards how they want to fit their suits and because they are not related to the tests and therefore have no relevance. However the CPU/PG and available number of low slots are taken into account. Also, I'm applying the following skills at level 5 each: Mobility L5 Circuitry L5 Combat Engineering L5 Dropsuit Command L5 Profile Dampening L5 Sensor Upgrades L5 Profile Analysis L5 Long Range Scanning L5 Remember, the point of these tests is to see which suit is the best the three respective categories. How big or small the margins are has no relevance because no matter how big or small the advantage may be, an advantage is still an advantage. Starting from largest frame to the smallest frame: Sprint Speed in meters per second using Complex Kinetic Catalyzers Heavy vk.0 = 6.32m/s Heavy vk.1 = 6.77m/s Assault vk.0 = 9.56m/s Assault vk.1 = 9.44m/s Logistics vk.0 = 8.99m/s Logistics vk.1 = 10.07m/s Scout vk.0 = 10.36m/s Scout vk.1 = 10.15m/s Verdict: In terms of frame size, the scout wins at 10.36m/s followed by the Logistcs at 10.07m/s, Assault at 9.56m/s and finally the Heavy at 6.77m/s. No surprise here. Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Assault vk.0 = 8.9dB Assault vk.1 = 11.87dB Logistics vk.0 = 8.9dB Logistics vk.1 = 8.9dB Scout vk.0 = 10.68dB Scout vk.1 = 10.68dB Verdict: Surprisingly, the Logistics and Assault suits are at a statistical tie at 8.9dB with Scout at 10.68dB and the Heavy trailing at 20.57dB. If you account for variants, the Logistics comes out on top. Looks like the Scout is not the stealthiest in the game after all. Of all things, it's the LogiBros that stand to benefit from this. Scan Precision - No Such Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Heavy vk.0 = 45dB Heavy vk.1 = 45dB Assault vk.0 = 41.25dB Assault vk.1 = 41.25dB Logistics vk.0 = 37.5dB Logistics vk.1 = 37.5dB Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB Verdict: The Scout wins since it as able to pick up the lowest profiles more effectively compared to everyone else. The Logistics follows in second, Assault in third, and Heavy in dead last. Please remember that this is not accounting for the active scanners one can fit on the equipment slots. There is a good likelihood that the Logistics may win if the active scanner is accounted for if you look at the suit's CPU/PG flexibility. Scan Radius in meters using Complex Range Amplifiers Heavy vk.0 = 39.42m Heavy vk.1 = 39.42m Assault vk.0 = 82.88m Assault vk.1 = 57.16m Logistics vk.0 = 82.88m Logistics vk.1 = 82.88m Scout vk.0 = 95.27m Scout vk.1 = 95.27m Verdict: The Scout wins for having the longest range. The Logistics and Assault are once again at a statistical tie. But if accounting for variant suits, the LogiBros once again stand to benefit more than the assaults. This test is also proof that the heavy should never venture out on its own on the battlefield. They are the slowest, loudest, and most blind dropsuits on the field. They must always have company. This is why a LogiBro and a Heavy are a perfect couple.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1851	Posted - 2013.03.31 21:56:00 - [2] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Precision - No Such Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) what are those precision scan enhancers then? interesting results Those are high-powered modules. Again, they are ignored because of that.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1853	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:18:00 - [3] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I don't understand why you disregard high slots ...? They have a pretty big impact on CPU and some on PG and therefore would affect the rest of your fitting. In addition you can't just say that a logi won't equip equipment slotssothatthey could run around likean assault. Unless the point you are trying to prove here is what you gentrifying try to make everyone look like and assault or get the benefit of the scouts precision or speed. If you want to do that you should control for some bonus like total shield HP,then figure out max speed, precision, profile, and weapon meta. As I stated before in my OP, the focus is only only on the four categories I selected. The high-slots and weapon slots are left empty and ignored as well as each suit's intended design (recon, support, shock trooper, AV, hacker, decoy, etc.) because including those details will just make it too much of a headache for me and everyone has an opinion on what style of fighting they prefer. This is why I left those slots open. So you can add in and adjust to your specific tastes while accounting for your suit's strengths and weaknesses in these four categories.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1853	Posted - 2013.03.31 22:22:00 - [4] - Quote @Mithridates Thanks for the discrepancy you noted. I'll update my post accordingly. However, I will still ignore the high-power slots because I want you all to come up with your own fits based on these bare-bones results.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1859	Posted - 2013.04.01 00:30:00 - [5] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Also I heard dropship command will no longer affect drop suit scan profile. So those number will change. Not sure thats true... Plus if everyone can get their profile so far below the precision level those marginal differences don't matter. Anyway you are just saying that the scout is best at looking at people (without regard for killing them), it's also best at running around (but you say nothing about its lethality or equipment mods of the logi) and there is nothing about endurance mods.... Lethality is still excluded because that is something that has too many variables. Rate of fire, damage per shot, shots per clip, reload time, armor damage, shield damage, style of causing damage, etc. I'm not gonna go through that much trouble especially with so many weapons to sort through. Equipment is currently set at in a way that is mostly limited to personal preference. As for endurance, I forgot about that. Sorry. When I have the time, I'll include that the next time I update the OP.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1861	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:12:00 - [6] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Awesome work, Maken... but you're wrong. Maken Tosch wrote: Scan Profile in dB using Complex Profile Dampeners Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db Scan Precision - No Such Low-Slot Modules Currently Available (Skills Used Only) Scout vk.0 = 33.75dB Scout vk.1 = 33.75dB This is why. This says a Heavy (highest Scan Profile) can reduce its scan profile below the level a Scout (lowest Scan Precision) can detect, making it effectively invisible. How is this possible? Quite simply, it ISN'T. There's something missing. HIGH SLOT MODULES. There are Precision Amplifier modules that you can use in your suit's High Slots. You didn't account for them. In that case, I will account for it then but only for the sake of the precision enhancing modules and nothing else.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1862	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:27:00 - [7] - Quote ===UPDATED THE OP WITH THE FOLLOWING=== Scan Precision using Complex Precision Enhancers (high-slot modules only) As requested by the readers of this thread. Heavy vk.0 = 30.72dB Heavy vk.1 = 30.72dB Assault vk.0 = 28.16dB Assault vk.1 = 22.53dB Logistics vk.0 = 20.48dB Logistics vk.1 = 20.48dB Scout vk.0 = 23.04dB Scout vk.1 = 23.04dB UPDATED Verdict: Once again, the Logistics wins first place in the test with the assault following behind in a close second. Sadly the Heavy is still the blindest of them all. However, this still doesn't account for the active scanners we will get. And since the DFT doesn't have that module yet and CCP has yet to give it back to us, I can't account for it.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1865	Posted - 2013.04.01 02:54:00 - [8] - Quote Ok guys. That's it. No more updates. Next person to ask me to include something I will show you how much damage my nova knife can do to you.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1868	Posted - 2013.04.01 03:24:00 - [9] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Endurance in Stamina Amount/Recovery Rate respectively using Complex Cardiac Regulators As requested by the readers of this thread Heavy vk.0 = 525.71/56.07 Heavy vk.1 = 735.98/56.07 Assault vk.0 = 1765.47/141.23 Assault vk.1 = 1376.1/126.58 Logistics vk.0 = 1412.35/112.99 Logistics vk.1 = 2330.41/225.98 Scout vk.0 = 1788.9/132.1 Scout vk.1 = 1699.42/132.1 Confused. Are you saying that the suits can reach over a thousand stamina? I haven't even gotten 200. Yup. With the exception of the Heavy. That thing needs a gym membership.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1871	Posted - 2013.04.01 05:19:00 - [10] - Quote I feel sorry for all the heavy users right now.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1875	Posted - 2013.04.01 15:18:00 - [11] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Always said theres nothing another suit can do that us logi's cant do just as well or better :) all hail to the king logis baby!! Scouts still reign supreme in sprint speed and scan radius. Top that.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1877	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:19:00 - [12] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Stealth Tanking Suit = dB-------CPU/PG remaining Logistics vk.1 = 8.9dB-----388.5/97.5 Logistics vk.0 = 8.9dB-----388.5/97.5 Assault vk.1 = 1.87dB-----313.5/82.5 Assault vk.0 = 8.9dB-----300.75/75 Heavy vk.1 = 20.57db-----263.25/67.5 Heavy vk.0 = 20.57dB-----263.25/67.5 Scout vk.1 = 10.68dB-----228.25/82.5 Scout vk.0 = 10.68dB-----200.75/75 I didn't go into the same depth here, but you can see that 'signal tanking' or 'stealth tanking' is a lot more forgiving on the PG/CPU than speed tanking. These numbers come from equipping the high slots with a full stack of dampeners. For reference 4 complex armor plates add +575 HP for 120 CPU and 41 PG (significant speed reduction). All suits could get significantly more gear on though. Its not too hard to see a proto weapon, adv grenades and equipment all be able to fit there, depending on how you stack your armor. Actually, I you're confusing the profile dampeners with the precision enhancers. Profile dampeners take up low power slots.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1877	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:24:00 - [13] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Speed comparative analysis Suit------CPU used/PG Used-----CPU Remaining/PG Remaining Logistics vk.1 = 10.07m/s-----108/60-----336.19/29.5 Logistics vk.0 = 8.99m/s----- 108/60-----336.19/29.5 Assault vk.1 = 9.44m/s-----81/45-----288.19/29.5 Assault vk.0 = 9.56m/s-----108/60-----223.69/7 Heavy vk.1 = 6.77m/s-----54/30-----240.19/29.5 Heavy vk.0 = 6.32m/s-----54/30-----240.19/29.5 Scout vk.1 = 10.15m/s-----81/45-----178.19/29.5 Scout vk.0 = 10.36m/s-----81/45-----150.69/22 So I took your numbers and assumed that you were fitting max catalyzers for this analysis. I then, just to control for other variables, assumed that each fit was equipping a GEK and a fused locus grenade. Now if you look at the remaining fittings you can quickly see what you have to start to sacrifice. Max tank If for example you want to fit a max tank (2 complex shields for about +165 HP) the Assault vk.0 or Scout vk.0 will not be able to equip any equipment or probably no sidearms, wasting 3 slots each. The remaining suits with equipment slots would have to use only a sidearm and a single equipment slot, or two equipment slots (and only standard modules). If you'd want to increase your weapon's meta, you'd then have to sacrifice tank and/or speed, but here the assault has the advantage, because as soon as you take a catalyzer off of the scout (for a PG upgrade), the assault has a better tank and more speed than the scout. This all assumes mostly max skills. Clearly PG is your limiting factor from catalyzers. So if you priorities are, max speed>max tank>max lethality...your possibilities are... 1) scout vk.0 at 10.36 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 403 HP (and significant shield recharge) and only a GEK/locus grenade. 2) scout vk.1 at 10.15 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 403 HP (+ recharge) GEK/grenade +std sidearm/ std equip 3) logistics vk.1 at 10.07 m/s (4 catalyzers) at 509 HP (weak recharge, but better stamina recovery than scout/assault) and only a GEK/grenade + 2 STD equipment (no sidearm). 4) assault vk.0 at 9.56 m/s (4 catalyzers) at 376 HP(no complex shields fit) and a GEK/locus grenade + a sidearm or better gun or maybe equip. 5) assault vk.1 at 9.44 m/s (3 catalyzers) at 541 HP and a GEK/locus grenade + a sidearm and/or better gun and/or maybe equip. Here you also see what you are sacrificing to get that marginal speed bonus. For max speed, you will not get close to max damage or tank. If you threw off the last catalyzer on each of these in exchange for a PG bonus, then you could probably start to get into prototype weapons and/or equipment onto your fitting. GÇªworking on similar analysis for the other categoriesGÇª Conclusion: It really doesn't seem worth it to be able to sprint at above 9.5 m/s to sacrifice so many other aspects of your fitting ability. Nice observation there. You are correct that going for pure speed is extremely limiting. So far there is one fit in particular that can still benefit from pure speed while still benefiting from max damage and still be able to use a prototype weapon. Ninja fit Scout vk.1 3x complex sidearm damage mod 1x Ishukone nova knife 3x complex kinetic catalyzers It forces the user to give up grenades and equipment but for its intended design, it's doable. But this only means that only knifers benefit from this.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1877	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:32:00 - [14] - Quote Keep in mind though that these figures only account for prototype level suits and modules. Since future updates are expected to introduce more suits and (maybe in the future) specialization suits, these figures are only definitive until May 6. The figures also don't account for cloaking modules, shield generators, etc. which are expected to be given to us on May.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1877	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:37:00 - [15] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Keep in mind though that these figures only account for prototype level suits and modules. Since future updates are expected to introduce more suits and (maybe in the future) specialization suits, these figures are only definitive until May 6. The figures also don't account for cloaking modules, shield generators, etc. which are expected to be given to us on May. Roger that, and I still haven't seen confirmation of a rumor that dropsuit command reducing the scan profile of a suit will now be removed in the coming patch... Is that somewhere? I think the profile bit is just rumor being rumor. Until CCP confirms that, ignore it.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1879	Posted - 2013.04.01 19:50:00 - [16] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Does the sidearm bonus and the melee damage bonus stack on the nova knives? As far as I know, no they don't. Only the sidearm weapon upgrade skill and its proficiency equivalent effect it.